Leveraging NACA: Real Estate Investment Tips from Mark Jones II | Ep. 98
In this episode of Money Talk with Tiff, host Tiffany Grant speaks with Mark Jones II, a real estate investor and founder of “Livin Rent Free.” Mark shares insights about the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America (NACA), a platform offering zero money down and zero closing costs mortgages.
He explains the eligibility criteria and discusses the opportunities and challenges of the NACA program. Mark also delves into the concept of house hacking and the potential of using section 8 vouchers to pay for mortgages.
If you’re looking to delve into real estate investment and learn about unique financing options, this episode is a must-listen!
About Our Guest
Mark Jones II is a Los Angeles native. Growing up in Los Angeles, Mark was inspired by the real estate developer Rick Caruso of Caruso Affiliates and his developments The Grove and The Americana. As a child, seeing huge Caruso® real estate developments spring up inspired him to create something of his own. In a way it empowered Mark. He asked himself, “If other people could create something beautiful in real estate that brought such beauty and enjoyment into the lives of others, why couldn’t I?”
Connect with Mark
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/livinrentfree/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@livinrentfree
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@livinrentfree_
Connect with Tiffany
Facebook: Money Talk With Tiff
Twitter: @moneytalkwitht
Instagram: @moneytalkwitht
LinkedIn: Tiffany Grant
Timestamps
[00:00] NACA protects homeowners from predatory lending practices.
[03:17] Man sued banks, funds NACA program for mortgages.
[08:56] Real estate options depend on income level.
[10:08] Gentrification brings investment opportunities in evolving neighborhoods.
[13:35] NACA program offers unique options, some limitations.
[17:13] Took a risk, profited big in LA.
[23:29] House hacking: live in part, rent out rest.
Key Topics
- NACA Program: Zero Down Payment and Closing Costs
- Real Estate Investing: Multifamily House Hacking Strategy
- Section 8 Vouchers: Potential for Home Purchase
- Community Development: Advocacy for Homeownership
- Financial Literacy: Wealth Building through Real Estate
- Eligibility and Criteria: Qualifications and Caveats
- Flexibility and Options: Lower Interest Rates and Rehab Financing
Additional Links & Resources
Copyright 2024 Tiffany Grant
Transcript
You know what it is. That's right. It's time to talk money with your
money nerd and financial coach. Now, tighten those purse
Speaker:strings and open those ears. It's the money talk with TIFF
Speaker:podcast. Hey,
everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Money Talk with TIFF podcast. So
Speaker:today on the line, I have Mark Jones II, and he is a
Speaker:Los Angeles native and a real estate developer
in Los Angeles. I find it so
Speaker:interesting that Mark, he says in his bio
Speaker:that he grew up and he was inspired by a real estate
developer where he lives, and then that's how he got into real estate.
Speaker:And so now he operates and rent free,
Speaker:which is a platform dedicated to courses and
just teaching people about how they can grow their money with real estate.
Speaker:So thank you so much, Mark, for coming on the show today.
Speaker:Tiff, thank you for the invite. Just for clarification, I am a real estate
investor, not a developer yet. Yeah, just for clarification. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker:But we're going to go ahead and claim it. Yeah. Because that's
Speaker:a big step. But one of my early inspirations is Rick
Caruso, huge real estate developer here in LA. And
Speaker:he's actually running for mayor of Los Angeles, too. He just announced that.
Speaker:Oh, wow. Nice. Well, you Los Angeles folks that are
listening in, you heard it here first. So definitely
Speaker:tap into that. But thank you so much, Mark,
Speaker:for coming on. And I just want to give people a little bit of background
onto how you even got on the show. Right. So I
Speaker:was just on Twitter, you know, how y'all just be on social media, we all
Speaker:just be on there. And he mentioned something called
NACA, and I want to say it's NACA. Right.
Speaker:Okay. And I said, I'd never heard of such a
Speaker:thing. And he was just blowing my minds with all this facts and
figures and things he was throwing out. So I said, I have to have you
Speaker:on my show to spread this good news about this program, because I feel
Speaker:like it will help a lot of people. So, Mark, what
is NACA? So, NACA is neighborhood Assistance Corporation
Speaker:of America. It's a nonprofit organization that
Speaker:focuses on community development. And
the short version of the long story is
Speaker:that the founder of NACA, or NACA,
Speaker:Bruce Marks, he used to be,
like, not a lobbyist, but he used to advocate
Speaker:for union workers rights and things like
Speaker:that. And he transitioned into protecting
homeowners from predatory lenders in
Speaker:the. So back in the day, and currently, honestly,
Speaker:this racism, sexism stuff, ageism still goes on, but
back in the day, there was a lot of predatory
Speaker:lending against us. African Americans, also elderly people.
Speaker:And what they would do is they would steal equity
from the elderly or for people that had properties with equity,
Speaker:they would offer higher interest rates to African Americans that had the same
Speaker:risk profile as other races or ethnicities. And
then people with English as a second language, like
Speaker:Hispanics and different people, they would also steal their
Speaker:equity. So what he did was he proved that and
sued them and got billions of dollars from banks like
Speaker:bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase. And now that
Speaker:money through the NACA program is used for down payment
assistance and closing cost assistance. The great thing about
Speaker:the NACA program is zero money down
Speaker:and zero closing costs. So when I say zero money down and zero closing
costs, people are like, well, are there fees? Yeah, there are additional
Speaker:fees, of course, but it's a truly zero down payment,
Speaker:zero closing cost mortgage. It's one of the
best mortgages in America, if not the best in America.
Speaker:So she found me on Twitter because I was talking about an
Speaker:ex girlfriend of mine who used a program,
and obviously it didn't work out. She was my ex. But before I started my
Speaker:brand, I always talk to people about real estate and say, hey, you do this,
Speaker:do that. And I realized, look, you got to find your
tribe. Because now people pay me to teach them the stuff I used
Speaker:to try and give away for free. But I thought she wasn't listening.
Speaker:But like a year or so later, a year and a half after we broke
up, maybe two years, I get a random text from her and she's like,
Speaker:oh, so grateful. This and that. Thank you. I'm like, what are we talking about?
Speaker:And so she's like, I bought a four unit in a good neighborhood in Los
Angeles worth over a million dollars. Zero money
Speaker:down, zero closing costs. So I
Speaker:have students that are doing that all across the country, and I've done it myself.
I have clients that are buying properties now over a million dollars and four units.
Speaker:But it was something special to see her, who I've never thought was listening,
Speaker:to actually apply. And so sometimes I post about that, and
it's a little catchy, so it gets people's attention,
Speaker:but it's true. It all works. Yeah. And see, that's what
Speaker:reeled me in, because I was like, wait a minute, hold on. Where was
Mark when I bought my house back in
Speaker:2017? No, but all jokes
Speaker:aside, though, it sounds like it's a wonderful program. And like I said, I had
never heard of it. So I'm sure there are people listening in or people that
Speaker:have still never heard of it. And so, thank you so much for coming on
Speaker:just to share about this platform. Now, as far as eligibility
is concerned, what can you tell us about that?
Speaker:There are some caveats. It's kind of like with anything,
Speaker:there's like trade offs, right? And then there's qualifications or numbers that
you may need. When I say numbers, I mean like
Speaker:money brought to the table. But some of the qualifications is
Speaker:like, the cool thing is that there's no upper income limits. So you could work
in tech, you could be a doctor. One of my clients makes almost
Speaker:200 grand, and we just open escrow on a four unit. So no
Speaker:income limits. Right. They also have no minimum credit score
requirements. So all other loan programs,
Speaker:literally, like almost all other loan programs, you have to have at least
Speaker:like a 580 or 620. With NACA program, there's
no minimum credit score requirements. They work with
Speaker:you to prove your credit
Speaker:trustworthiness through. If you're paying cell phone bills, if
you're paying your Netflix or cable, whatever, they figure out a way to make
Speaker:it documented that you'll pay things back. But
Speaker:this is a caveat. It's two of them.
They're upper, not income, upper purchase price limits. So in
Speaker:higher cost of living areas, like New York, San Francisco,
Speaker:La, the purchase price is higher. And
then in middle income, lower
Speaker:kind of cost of living places, then of course it's going to be lower.
Speaker:So, for example, in New York, La, San Francisco,
for a four unit property, the upper limit is 1.4 million.
Speaker:Now, I will say a couple of years ago that was
Speaker:fine, but now with inflation happening and
all the home values skyrocketing, other
Speaker:loan programs have gone from like 1.5 million to 1.8
Speaker:million as their upper limit. But NACA is still like a
few years behind at 1.4. So you will still find
Speaker:some, but it's getting harder now that the prices are
Speaker:kind of getting pushed up. But there's that, and then there's something
called a priority member and a non priority member.
Speaker:So priority members are people that make within the
Speaker:median income of these priority
areas. Right. And so what that means is that, say in
Speaker:La county, let me take a step back. A priority member is
Speaker:defined as someone that makes a certain
percentage, no more than 100% of the median income in the county that they're trying
Speaker:to buy. So let me clarify. So in LA, for example, I
Speaker:think it's 79,000 is our median income,
76 or 79,000. You can just look it up. Median
Speaker:income plus your county, or median income plus your city and you'll find it.
Speaker:So if you make more than that, you become non
priority. Let's define priority and what's their
Speaker:benefits, right? So priority, they get a lower interest rate. Usually it's
Speaker:like half a percent or maybe sometimes even a percent
lower than if you're a non priority. So that means your mortgage is going to
Speaker:be a lot cheaper. And then also with priority members,
Speaker:you can buy anywhere. It doesn't matter if it's in Beverly Hills. If
you find a property that's in Beverly Hills or a good neighborhood, if you
Speaker:priority, you don't make a lot of money. You probably don't be able to buy
Speaker:in Beverly Hills. But let's just say there's no limit.
Go ahead. But you could. It feels like a
Speaker:freak thing where you found something off market and you
Speaker:knew the neighbor and they wanted to give it to you or something, then it
could work. But generally speaking, you can buy anywhere. There's
Speaker:no restrictions in terms of geographical restrictions. Right? Now, if
Speaker:you're non priority, the interest rate is
higher, right? But you have to
Speaker:buy, I should say, if the interest rate is higher. But if you
Speaker:buy in these areas that are
80% of the median income. So
Speaker:the reason why I teach this in depth is I have
Speaker:all this stuff memorized, but it's a lot of information, right? So
that's why I like to say, hey, come to my page, learn from my page,
Speaker:because I give a lot of free information away, like how you found me, right?
Speaker:So it's very difficult to kind of memorize everything. But
the point is that if you buy in an area where the
Speaker:incomes are 80% of
Speaker:that 79,000 that we talked about in La county, right.
Then what you can do is now you're considered like,
Speaker:you become a priority member, even if you're making 100 grand, 200 grand,
Speaker:whatever amount you're making. And so some people that
may not work for me because I want to live in the hippiest, coolest part
Speaker:of downtown. So I say, fine, no problem, do your
Speaker:thing. But this is where it works for a lot of people who are wise
and who've learned from me. When a place is
Speaker:gentrifying, what changes is the commercial
Speaker:parts of the area, right? So now you have like pilates
and yoga and coffee shops and bars, right? But a
Speaker:lot of times it takes years for the median income to
Speaker:change because the owners in the neighborhood are still the
abuelas grandmother, grandfather, older people who've been living
Speaker:there for 30 years that have stable incomes and that have
Speaker:stable static mortgages because they bought
2030 years ago, and so now their mortgages are really low, or
Speaker:ten years ago, mortgages are lower and all the purchase
Speaker:prices around them are going up. But the majority of the people in the neighborhood
still have suppressed incomes, right? So what that means
Speaker:is that you can go buy in what was Brooklyn's eight
Speaker:years ago, Brooklyn ten years ago, or whatever,
in these gentrifying areas that haven't completely been
Speaker:gentrified, and you can still qualify for those
Speaker:areas. But if you're already ready made,
already nice neighborhoods, Brickell and Miami, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Brooklyn now, things like that, you're not going to be able to get in with
Speaker:this program necessarily, but
it can work if you play it smart. And the reason why it's really wise
Speaker:to do it is because I advocate people to buy multifamily
Speaker:properties. So now you're getting an investment property for no
money out of your pocket, which for me is like in
Speaker:America, they barely give away anything for free. So it's almost like you're
Speaker:getting a property for free. It's not for free because you
still have fees that you have to come to the table. It's about like 1%
Speaker:of the purchase price. So if it's a million dollar property, you need like ten
Speaker:grand, and then you need like reserves as well,
just in case something like the pandemic happens. You got to have money to be
Speaker:able to pay the mortgage for three to six months, depending on what kind of
Speaker:property. Actually, it's four to six months, depending on what kind of property you buy.
Some of the amazing features of the program is
Speaker:that you can also get some of the lowest
Speaker:interest rates in the country. So as
compared to any other loan program, NACA
Speaker:offers very low interest rates. They'll be anywhere
Speaker:between like half a percent and a percent lower
than FHA, conventional and
Speaker:VA loans. And what that means is just that
Speaker:your mortgage payment is going to be lower, right? So it's more
affordable. Another thing is that the program allows you
Speaker:to finance rehabs. So
Speaker:now finance the rehab. People are like, well, if you finance
it, then you still have to pay for it in the long term,
Speaker:right? Because you finance something, you spread it out over the 30 year period.
Speaker:But the good thing is when you finance it, they allow you to
and you're able to buy down the interest rate. So you
Speaker:finance it, buy down the interest rate. So now, although you
Speaker:added the cost of the rehab,
you've brought the payment down to where it would be as
Speaker:if you never added the financing. So there's a lot of
Speaker:options, and it's just a
very unique program. Some of the downsides, though, again,
Speaker:are they require you to live in the property for the
Speaker:life of the loan. So that really shuns a lot of people and
turns a lot of people off and away. But if you're strategic, you can figure
Speaker:out a way to actually refinance that
Speaker:loan and get out of that NACA program and then still have
the property. Right? So ownership gives you options. You're not
Speaker:going to be limited for the 30 years having to live there.
Speaker:Some people commit fraud, which I never recommend publicly
or privately, but there's no, quote unquote, NACA
Speaker:police, so they're not going to come knocking on your door every week checking
Speaker:to make sure you live there. So some people, after a few years, they'll
sublet a unit or move out or whatever. Again, don't
Speaker:recommend that, publicly or privately. But I always do recommend
Speaker:that if you get equity down the line, you want to turn into a
complete rental, you could refinance and move on and live your
Speaker:life. So that's an option. Yes. And it sounds like there's so
Speaker:much flexibility with this program, which personally, I
have an FHA loan, and there's so many restrictions and
Speaker:things like that. And so, you know, again, darn, where
Speaker:was market when I was buying? FHA is still a
good loan, though. It's a good program. It is. But this sounds a lot
Speaker:better. Like, for instance, I have on their website here,
Speaker:I'm actually looking at their rates, and it's looking like
2.875% for a 30 year and
Speaker:2.25% for a 15 year. And those
Speaker:are phenomenal. Really low
because all the rates just went up. Everybody else is getting, like, in the
Speaker:threes. And even when I refinanced last year, it was still,
Speaker:I think, 3.25, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.
So these are still really great rates. Let me ask
Speaker:you, what was your rate from 2017? Back in
Speaker:2017, it was like
4.75 or something like that. So that was good that you brought
Speaker:it down. Yeah. So it was a great deal for me. But
Speaker:I'm looking at this generally speaking.
Generally speaking. But I do want to ask,
Speaker:because I wanted to know this for myself. What if you already
Speaker:have purchased a home? Or what if you're already in a home? Can
you still take advantage of this program? Or is it only for first time
Speaker:home buyers? Yeah. So I always have to clarify with the
Speaker:language. Right. So there's two parts to that question.
What if you already have a home, and then is it only for first time
Speaker:home buyers? So those are different. Right. So is it only for first time home
Speaker:buyers? No, it's not only for first time home buyers, but it's a
nuanced answer. Right. So, for example, I've used
Speaker:the program before, but it was the second time I was purchasing a home.
Speaker:So I wasn't a first time home buyer as my point. So I was able
to still purchase, but I wasn't a first time home buyer. But then to go
Speaker:to your first question, what if you already living in a home, can
Speaker:you go through the program? And I say no. And
think about it this way. If you already have a home and
Speaker:somebody goes and gives you a million dollar
Speaker:duplex or triplex in Brooklyn, it's like they're just
giving away properties, right? So it's good, but it ain't that good. Your
Speaker:program is good, but it's not that good. You know what I'm saying? So what
Speaker:they're doing is they're promoting community development, community investment.
And so they're doing it for people who plan on living there. And so
Speaker:what I did, which is just a personal thing, it doesn't
Speaker:have to be for everyone. But I did the risk rewards
ratio, right? The trade off the pros and cons, and I had a
Speaker:home kind of in the suburbs, and I had the opportunity to buy one on
Speaker:the same street, in the same vicinity as the
sofa stadium where they just had the Super bowl. And so I said,
Speaker:okay, I could let go of the peanuts and trade that off and
Speaker:go get a multifamily in booming LA
for the zero down. All I have to do is sell this property.
Speaker:And when I sold it, I kept the profits, because, remember, it was
Speaker:zero down, zero closing costs. So what I profited from here, I
pocketed, and then I took a little bit of the
Speaker:proceeds for the minimum fees and stuff, and then got that
Speaker:triplex, and now it's up almost 400,000 in the last two
years, which is like, every time I even say that, I'm like, what the hell?
Speaker:This is crazy. But I'm just grateful. Yeah, but that's the whole point of living
Speaker:free, is like, I teach about the benefits of real estate, and you just have
to be really strategic about it, and you have to be directionally
Speaker:accurate or directionally correct and not specifically
Speaker:correct. So that's the good thing about real estate. As long as you're going
in the right direction, you can get rich, you can
Speaker:get wealthy, and it's not get rich quick, but you can get wealthy over
Speaker:time. Yeah. And I mean, if it was get rich quick, I'll be like,
you might want to. So it's a good thing that it's not.
Speaker:But I'm over here. Like, I am not married to this house. I can
Speaker:go. Give me. But
all jokes aside, though, there was something else that I read on their website,
Speaker:too, and that was about section eight. Are you
Speaker:familiar with that? Like using the section eight vouchers and things like
that? So yes and no. There's two aspects. It depends on
Speaker:your question. What is your question specifically about section eight?
Speaker:I read on their website. Let me just start there.
That you could use your section eight vouchers
Speaker:to pay for your mortgage. That's what I
Speaker:read. So what are your thoughts on that?
So I think it's a brilliant program, right? I think it's a really great
Speaker:program. Generally speaking, I
Speaker:only teach about things that I know directly and have experience
with. And the reason is being in a public eye, it's about
Speaker:accountability and transparency stuff, too. But being
Speaker:in a public eye, I like feeling comfortable that if anybody asks me a
question, I can answer it upside down, inside out, because I know it.
Speaker:But if I start getting to territory where I'm not that certain people
Speaker:in the audience who know it will see that I don't know what I'm talking
about, and I don't ever want to be in that position. So I'll answer your
Speaker:question this way. I actually was on section eight growing up as a kid,
Speaker:for most of my life. So I know section eight pretty well from the
renters perspective. Right. You can rent your units to
Speaker:section eight, but I know that's not your question, right. You purchase and then
Speaker:you rent out the units to section eight. And it's good money because it's predictable,
it's stable, it's from the government. Every month during the pandemic, I didn't
Speaker:miss one rent payment because they were coming to me
Speaker:through section eight. So I've been a section eight landlord.
The program you're talking about is a program where
Speaker:you're on section eight and then you can use the
Speaker:vouchers to actually go and purchase a home. It's
definitely true. The only thing is that out
Speaker:of the hundreds of people on the list, it's a very selective list.
Speaker:Only a few people a year get approved for
it out of the whole nation. So not just hundreds. It's like out of thousands
Speaker:of people, only a few people each year in each city, each
Speaker:state get it and you can look it up on the government website
that provides it. It's only like a handful
Speaker:of people, like really small percentage. And it's amazing. I
Speaker:mean, to think about that. You could have section eight
and take that voucher, turn around and buy a home.
Speaker:So it's definitely possible. And there's a list of people who do it every year,
Speaker:but it's a very thin list. I think it's like a thousand people
in the nation or something like that. I don't want to thought a number,
Speaker:inaccurate number, but it's like super thin though, really small number. So
Speaker:what we're going to do is we're going to say y'all just go to the
NACA website and educate yourself if you're interested in that part of the
Speaker:program because we're not experts in it. But I did see
Speaker:that it was possible and so I wanted to make sure that was known
because I know there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast that are
Speaker:on section eight or trying to figure out a way how do
Speaker:I transition out of this situation. So that's why
I wanted to bring that up because it seems like this could
Speaker:possibly be an option. And like I tell people all
Speaker:the time, just apply. You never know. You never know. At the
end of the day, you never.
Speaker:Idea. Well, we said the way out of poverty is ideas, right?
Speaker:One of my quotes which I get from Earl Nightingale is one
idea can make you rich. So, tiff, I really like that idea
Speaker:because Naca, I said it's a slim list. So I don't want to
Speaker:discourage people. It's a slim list of people who get it. But Naca actually
will help you through the process. So if you go to the website in
Speaker:the section eight part where you can buy what's using your section eight voucher,
Speaker:you'll have somebody that's advocating for you and helping you with the
process. And then the cool thing is if you don't just buy a house
Speaker:with the section eight officer, say, you go around and say, I want to get
Speaker:a multifamily. Now you're on section eight, but you're getting
income from the other units and
Speaker:it's helping you to build yourself up wealth and you're also
Speaker:providing good housing for maybe other people who are on section eight. So that's a
really good idea. It's an awesome idea. Yeah. That is
Speaker:so awesome. So let me back up a little bit to your last point,
Speaker:how you said that you have a multifamily. I love that this program
allows you to buy a multifamily. And we've mentioned on the podcast
Speaker:before about house hacking. So I just wanted to
Speaker:reiterate what house hacking is and how you could use it as
a strategy. House hacking is an amazing strategy. So it's
Speaker:when you purchase one to four unit
Speaker:property, you live in either one of the rooms,
if it's a single family or townhouse or whatever
Speaker:condo, and then you rent out the other parts of the house or
Speaker:property to help you pay for the mortgage. So in a
multifamily situation, you'll live in one side of the duplex, rent the
Speaker:other ones, or live in one of the units side of a triplex or four
Speaker:unit, and then you rent out the other ones and it pays for your mortgage.
Like house hacking supercharged. Now people are putting
Speaker:one of the units on Airbnb or renting it out to travel nurses
Speaker:to make even more money. But
the really amazing thing is that most people's largest expense
Speaker:every month is their housing expense. So if you can
Speaker:eliminate that and then you get rid of your car payment, because, say, you
buy a used car or something like that, you start stacking up a
Speaker:significant amount of money every single month that you can
Speaker:save. Right? So what would your life look like if every
month you're able to save an extra 10 00, 20 00, 10 00,
Speaker:$502,500? Man, in no
Speaker:time, you'll be making progress. So that's what I teach a lot of
my students. It changed my life. It made
Speaker:me a lot more financially stable and allowed me to get ahead.
Speaker:So I really recommend people doing it, even if they just do it
temporarily. Doesn't have to be forever. Everyone's always like, man, I don't want to live
Speaker:next to people, but if it's twelve months
Speaker:and then you move out or two years or whatever, you move out, it'll
really set you up financially. So that's what I recommend. Awesome.
Speaker:Well, thank you so much for that refresher. I just wanted to reiterate that because
Speaker:you could use this strategy with that strategy and you could just strategize
your way to wealth. I love how you
Speaker:said that. Your way to wealth.
Speaker:Yes. And I promise I'll be coming up with this stuff on the fly.
But anyway, thank you so much, Mark. So, speaking of students, if
Speaker:people were interested in learning more about how they can find you, how can they
Speaker:learn more about you? Where can they find you? So go
to Instagram. My Instagram is living rent free.
Speaker:So it's L-I-V-I-N no g, just L-I-V-I-N.
Speaker:Rent free. And also on Twitter, it's living
rent free as well, with an underscore at the end
Speaker:warning. I'm a little bit uncensored on Twitter, so if you follow
Speaker:me on Twitter, it's not just pure real estate stuff, but if you go on
Instagram, it's just strictly real estate, financial literacy,
Speaker:mental health, stuff like that. But yeah, I'm a little bit unfiltered on Twitter, so
Speaker:be careful when you follow me. Well, I think everyone is,
so we definitely have those caveats. But thank you so much, Mark.
Speaker:And if you all did not hear that, I will have all of that in
Speaker:the show notes. So no worries. If you're trying to hurry up and jot, it'll
be in the show notes. You can check it out there. And thank you so
Speaker:much, Mark, for joining me on the show today and going along
Speaker:with me. Just saying, oh, come on the podcast, you're like,
sure, y'all, here's another lesson
Speaker:asking ye shall receive. It's right. So
Speaker:anyway, thank you so much, Mark, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of
your day. Likewise. Thank you, Tiff. Bye.
Speaker:Thank you for listening, joining and being a part of the Money Talk with TIFF
Speaker:podcast this week. You can check Tiff out every Thursday for a new
Money talk podcast. But if you just can't wait until next week, you you
Speaker:can listen to previous podcast
Speaker:episodes@moneytalkwitht.com or
follow TIFF on all social media platforms at
Speaker:moneytalkwitht. Until next time, spend wise
Speaker:by spending less than you make. A word to the moneywise is
always sufficient.