From the Felt to the Boardroom: How Poker Skills Can Boost Your Career Success | Ep. 289

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In this captivating episode, Erin Lydon of Poker Power deals out a hand of wisdom showing how poker strategies can shape your financial and professional world. Learn why folding isn’t just a poker move, but a life skill, and how calculating risks can lead to big payoffs both on and off the felt.

About Our Guest

Erin Lydon is a thought leader, frequent speaker on equal pay and workplace equity, and President of Poker Power. Her passion to lead Poker Power stemmed from her experience working on Wall Street twenty years ago. After learning that she was not being paid the same as her male colleagues, and struggling to find a seat at the table in the male-dominated financial industry, Erin was confronted with the reality of the “force field” surrounding tables of power that keep women from sitting down, playing, and competing equally. Erin discovered poker during this time, and made the connection that learning to think, negotiate and take risks, like a winning poker player, trained her in skillsets that offered a solution for pushing the needle on women’s empowerment in the workplace. Erin now leads Poker Power’s mission to teach one million girls and women how to stack their skills, negotiate, and take calculated risks by gamifying key leadership lessons with poker gameplay.

Before joining Poker Power, Erin was the strategic advisor to the management team of Evil Geniuses, a global e-sports organization. She has previously served as an independent corporate director on the boards of Marbles and Roomlinx and began her finance career at JPMorgan.

Erin received her MBA from Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management and BA from Bates College. In 2023, she received the Global Gaming Women “Women of Inspiration–Woman to Watch” award and has spoken on many premier stages including TEDx, Money 20/20 RiseUp, AWS Women’s Leadership Summits, TEDx Talk, Monaco Positive Impact Summit, and many more. Erin serves on the Advisory Board for Money 20/20 RiseUp and was a mentor for SXSW Edu in 2023. Additionally, she is a member of McKinsey’s Midwest Executive Women’s Forum.

Connect with Erin

Website: https://pokerpower.com/

Twitter: @joinpokerpower

Instagram: @joinpokerpower

Facebook: Join Poker Power

Connect with Tiffany

Website: https://moneytalkwitht.com

Facebook: Money Talk With Tiff 

Twitter: @moneytalkwitht 

Instagram: @moneytalkwitht 

LinkedIn: Tiffany Grant 

YouTube: Money Talk With Tiff Channel 

Pinterest: Money Talk With Tiff

Transcript
Speaker:

Intro/Outro: You know what it is. That's right. It's time to talk

Speaker:

money with your money nerd and financial coach.

Speaker:

Now, tighten those purse strings and open those ears.

Speaker:

It's the money talk with TIFF podcast.

Tiffany Grant:

Hey, everyone. I'm so excited because I have Erin

Tiffany Grant:

Leiden on the line, and she is the owner of poker

Tiffany Grant:

power. And I, wanted to bring her on because,

Tiffany Grant:

as the name may hint, we're going to talk about poker,

Tiffany Grant:

but also how it relates to your money. So. Hey, Erin,

Tiffany Grant:

how are you?

Erin Lydon:

Hi, Tiff. It's great to meet you.

Tiffany Grant:

Yes, and it's great to have you on. I'm so excited about

Tiffany Grant:

this conversation. So, first and foremost, let's

Tiffany Grant:

just get the elephant out the room.

Tiffany Grant:

why poker? What does poker do

Tiffany Grant:

for our money?

Erin Lydon:

Yes, it's a very sound question to

Erin Lydon:

ask. largely because there are so many stereotypes around the

Erin Lydon:

word poker and the game, certainly. And what we are doing

Erin Lydon:

at poker power is we are using the

Erin Lydon:

strategy, the negotiation, the risk taking

Erin Lydon:

of the game, and we are bringing it to women in the

Erin Lydon:

workplace to help them empower their own success.

Erin Lydon:

And so we're not at all about getting you into the

Erin Lydon:

casino. what we are all about is, can you

Erin Lydon:

start to think and negotiate and

Erin Lydon:

strategize like a winning poker

Erin Lydon:

player? And what we have found is this is a game

Erin Lydon:

of imperfect information. It's a game of

Erin Lydon:

asymmetrical information. It's a game of

Erin Lydon:

calculated risk taking. All of those things

Erin Lydon:

require practice to get better at. They're skills for

Erin Lydon:

everybody. They're certainly not limited to women. And it is through

Erin Lydon:

the repetitive gameplay and the scenarios that we

Erin Lydon:

practice at our table, both virtually in person, that

Erin Lydon:

we really can hone these key leadership skills for

Erin Lydon:

women in the workplace.

Tiffany Grant:

That is so interesting. And I'm

Tiffany Grant:

like, darn, we're not going to get rich quick.

Tiffany Grant:

No.

Erin Lydon:

There is an element of luck to poker, but it is primarily

Erin Lydon:

skill.

Tiffany Grant:

Very cool, very cool. So give us an example of how

Tiffany Grant:

that plays out. like in corporate

Tiffany Grant:

or in a career for a woman. what is

Tiffany Grant:

something that they can learn from the game of poker?

Erin Lydon:

Yeah. so we have twelve lessons, and

Erin Lydon:

each of the lessons has a leadership theme. And so let's

Erin Lydon:

talk about negotiation, because I think

Erin Lydon:

negotiation is a skill that you can

Erin Lydon:

get better at. It is a skill that we don't necessarily

Erin Lydon:

come pre equipped in knowing how to do

Erin Lydon:

successfully. And it is also a skill that

Erin Lydon:

if you do it successfully, you can apply that,

Erin Lydon:

certainly to promotions, asking for

Erin Lydon:

raises, getting your partner to take out the

Erin Lydon:

trash. There's a lot of really useful negotiating with

Erin Lydon:

your teenager. I have two of them, so I use my negotiation

Erin Lydon:

skills with them. and so what we do with

Erin Lydon:

poker power is through the gameplay. so

Erin Lydon:

we're not lecturing to you. We're not just talking

Erin Lydon:

about the game. We actually have everyone who's learning with us,

Erin Lydon:

actively playing with us. And so as you are playing

Erin Lydon:

poker, you're really going to come to what we call the

Erin Lydon:

three levels of thinking. And these directly are

Erin Lydon:

paralleled to a negotiation. So in level

Erin Lydon:

one, you are making a binary decision. You

Erin Lydon:

have two whole cards. They are hidden from everybody else.

Erin Lydon:

You look at them and you have to make a decision. Do

Erin Lydon:

I raise or do I fold? If you fold, you're

Erin Lydon:

out of that hand and you're saving your chips for the next round.

Erin Lydon:

If you choose to raise, then you're putting chips into the pot

Erin Lydon:

and play has begun. That is

Erin Lydon:

negotiating at its most simple. You are only

Erin Lydon:

looking at your cards and making a decision from your own

Erin Lydon:

perspective. What's important is that you then go to

Erin Lydon:

level two. So once you get the basics down, we take you to level

Erin Lydon:

two. Level two is where you're going to ask

Erin Lydon:

yourself, what do I have and what do I think

Erin Lydon:

my opponents have? And the question you're really

Erin Lydon:

asking is a shifting of the perspective. So

Erin Lydon:

it's no longer just, what is my chip stack?

Erin Lydon:

What are my toolhold cards? You're observing and

Erin Lydon:

starting to notice behavioral patterns at

Erin Lydon:

the table with your opponents. And what you're really trying to figure

Erin Lydon:

out is, do they hold something that possibly

Erin Lydon:

can beat what you hold? And should you stay in the hand or should you get

Erin Lydon:

out? that's level two, and that's where most

Erin Lydon:

recreational players are playing poker. it's a very

Erin Lydon:

helpful tool in a negotiation. For example, with a

Erin Lydon:

client is that you can start to see, the

Erin Lydon:

situation from their perspective and know, are you stronger

Erin Lydon:

or are you weaker? Now, level three is the most

Erin Lydon:

complex, and that's where you ask yourself, what

Erin Lydon:

do I have? What do I think you have? And what

Erin Lydon:

do I think you think that I have?

Erin Lydon:

And so it's this ever evolving,

Erin Lydon:

complex thought process. And what's great

Erin Lydon:

with poker is it's occurring in every single

Erin Lydon:

hand. and unlike once a year, you get to

Erin Lydon:

negotiate for a raise or a new

Erin Lydon:

promotion, at a poker game, you're

Erin Lydon:

actively practicing that power shifting, that

Erin Lydon:

assessing of imperfect information at the

Erin Lydon:

table, because you don't know what the cards, other people's cards

Erin Lydon:

are. And, what you may not realize about

Erin Lydon:

poker is that depending on where you are

Erin Lydon:

seated, whether that's in an app, virtually, or actually at a

Erin Lydon:

real table, you are seated in positions of

Erin Lydon:

relative strength and weakness, and that

Erin Lydon:

shifts with every hand. So you get to play all the power

Erin Lydon:

positions. but you're going to make different

Erin Lydon:

decisions with exactly the same two whole

Erin Lydon:

cards depending on whether you're in a seat of strength,

Erin Lydon:

which is the dealer, or you're sitting in a seat of

Erin Lydon:

weakness, which is where the blinds are, or under the gun.

Erin Lydon:

that is a fascinating experience to,

Erin Lydon:

again, practice over and over, because that is real

Erin Lydon:

life. you don't always come to the negotiation table

Erin Lydon:

with the biggest chip stack. and so you have to be able to

Erin Lydon:

maneuver and navigate the environment that you are

Erin Lydon:

in. And we really feel that poker is a great way to get

Erin Lydon:

comfortable doing that.

Tiffany Grant:

Wow, I love how you just broke that all the

Tiffany Grant:

way down for us. And the

Tiffany Grant:

crazy part is like, level three. It sounds very meta

Tiffany Grant:

like, what are they thinking that I'm thinking? That

Tiffany Grant:

you're thinking?

Erin Lydon:

And it's interesting because I'm sure, when people

Erin Lydon:

hear the word poker, they often think of poker tells or poker

Erin Lydon:

face. And that's absolutely part

Erin Lydon:

of this game, is being able to. What you're really trying to

Erin Lydon:

do is assess change in baseline behavior. And so

Erin Lydon:

that requires some amount of time playing with the same

Erin Lydon:

people to be able to determine that.

Erin Lydon:

But that's one element. There are

Erin Lydon:

so many other elements to the game, and

Erin Lydon:

it's the synthesis of all of them and

Erin Lydon:

doing it successfully. That's what makes you really good at poker

Erin Lydon:

as well as certainly in real life negotiations. It's not

Erin Lydon:

just a single thing you have to get good at.

Tiffany Grant:

Wow, that is so interesting.

Tiffany Grant:

And, my first

Tiffany Grant:

foray into poker was in high school,

Tiffany Grant:

and my math teacher actually brought out the

Tiffany Grant:

cards and I had no idea how to play. Like,

Tiffany Grant:

I knew how to play rummy and all these

Tiffany Grant:

spades and other games, but I've never played poker.

Tiffany Grant:

And she brought it out to teach us

Tiffany Grant:

probability, and I learned so much

Tiffany Grant:

in doing that. And so let's talk about that a little

Tiffany Grant:

bit. When we're

Tiffany Grant:

thinking about using poker as

Tiffany Grant:

probability and risk taking, what does that look

Tiffany Grant:

like?

Erin Lydon:

Yeah, I love that your math teacher was

Erin Lydon:

so forward thinking in giving you that opportunity.

Erin Lydon:

We, work with a lot of corporate partners, but we also work with a

Erin Lydon:

younger population, and we're very eager to bring

Erin Lydon:

poker into school settings. to do exactly what you

Erin Lydon:

experienced is through playing this game.

Erin Lydon:

There is what we call it poker math and I'll tell you a funny

Erin Lydon:

story in a moment about that. but it is simple

Erin Lydon:

calculations that you can do at the table

Erin Lydon:

to determine, does it make probabilistic

Erin Lydon:

sense for you to continue to put chips into the pot? And

Erin Lydon:

just for anyone who's not at all familiar with poker, your chips is

Erin Lydon:

your value. So when we play at poker, power, there's no

Erin Lydon:

monetary value because we don't play for real money. But

Erin Lydon:

every chip represents, an amount of value that you're

Erin Lydon:

putting into play with the other players. Now,

Erin Lydon:

what's funny with poker math is that that was the title of

Erin Lydon:

lesson three when we built our first curriculum, which was during the

Erin Lydon:

pandemic, it was 2020, and every one of the

Erin Lydon:

lessons had a title, and it was poker math. We weren't being very creative. We didn't

Erin Lydon:

have a marketing person on board yet, and,

Erin Lydon:

it was the most skipped

Erin Lydon:

lesson. Now, in retrospect,

Erin Lydon:

okay, of course, because you always hear women are afraid of

Erin Lydon:

math. Women don't like to do numbers, which I actually don't believe

Erin Lydon:

is true because we're all very good at our home budgets and going to the

Erin Lydon:

grocery store and deciding if we can buy those shoes. But do

Erin Lydon:

we want to do complex financial math at a poker

Erin Lydon:

table? Absolutely not. But you don't have to.

Erin Lydon:

so what we did with poker math is we retitled it to

Erin Lydon:

calculating. And women seemed much more

Erin Lydon:

amenable to the word calculating, and

Erin Lydon:

we moved it from lesson three to lesson seven, because I

Erin Lydon:

know if you've already devoted 6 hours of time to learning with

Erin Lydon:

us, you're coming back for lesson seven.

Erin Lydon:

Especially if I tell you that learning how

Erin Lydon:

to do the simple math at the table is

Erin Lydon:

such a secret sauce. And even more importantly, it's

Erin Lydon:

so unexpected that you know how to do

Erin Lydon:

that, because you have to remember that most of the people you will play

Erin Lydon:

poker against are men, just because

Erin Lydon:

5% of the professional players are women. So we're a very small

Erin Lydon:

part of the population, number one. But even

Erin Lydon:

recreationally, men who play this

Erin Lydon:

game, they grew up playing it. So they learned in summer

Erin Lydon:

camp, they learned from an uncle. they

Erin Lydon:

didn't really study or learn the strategy in most

Erin Lydon:

cases. And so many of them actually don't

Erin Lydon:

bring that secret sauce of being able to do the risk analysis

Erin Lydon:

at the table. I love empowering

Erin Lydon:

women with skills that are

Erin Lydon:

outliers that people are not expecting them to have.

Erin Lydon:

And being able to assess whether this is a

Erin Lydon:

mathematically good decision to put more money and more chips

Erin Lydon:

into the pot is one of those secret sauces that I think

Erin Lydon:

women should have.

Tiffany Grant:

I love that. And I'm glad you changed that title

Tiffany Grant:

to calculate, because people

Tiffany Grant:

just. Most people are like, oh, math.

Tiffany Grant:

But calculating is like, moha.

Erin Lydon:

That's strategy. Yeah. That's something you want an upper

Erin Lydon:

hand.

Tiffany Grant:

With right now, listening

Tiffany Grant:

to you speak about poker in this way, because I've never

Tiffany Grant:

thought about it this way before. it

Tiffany Grant:

also seems like it may help with

Tiffany Grant:

confidence as well. Do you see that?

Erin Lydon:

That's actually, the very first thing that

Erin Lydon:

we see. And so lesson one is titled

Erin Lydon:

courage, and we titled it courage because we know it takes a

Erin Lydon:

lot of courage to sit down at a poker table. so

Erin Lydon:

few of us have done it. So many of us have negative stereotypes

Erin Lydon:

of the game. So we get you to come to class, we get you to

Erin Lydon:

come to a workshop that's in person, and you have the courage. You

Erin Lydon:

sit down, and what happens, about

Erin Lydon:

15 minutes into playing is someone at

Erin Lydon:

that table is going to shove all their

Erin Lydon:

chips into the pot, which means they're going all in, which

Erin Lydon:

is a term that's usually familiar to people. So they've taken the entire chipsack

Erin Lydon:

in front of them, they've put it into the middle of the pot, and they're hoping to win

Erin Lydon:

a great big pot of chips. They've probably done that because

Erin Lydon:

they're holding two very strong cards. Maybe they have two aces

Erin Lydon:

or two kings or an ace and a king, and they believe they're

Erin Lydon:

going to win that pot. what happens

Erin Lydon:

next is that person wins. And so there's

Erin Lydon:

this moment where she gets to scoop back this giant,

Erin Lydon:

colorful chipstack back into her

Erin Lydon:

area of the table and start stacking them up, and

Erin Lydon:

she's feeling like a rock star. I mean, truly like a rock

Erin Lydon:

star. someone at that table is capturing a reel for

Erin Lydon:

Instagram as this is happening. And

Erin Lydon:

what's most important is, yes, we're celebrating that

Erin Lydon:

woman who just did that. But everyone else

Erin Lydon:

at the table is also cheering and

Erin Lydon:

celebrating and taking pictures. And that's what's so

Erin Lydon:

unique about our poker power classes, is they

Erin Lydon:

are collaborative. They are truly

Erin Lydon:

a celebration of women's success. Whether you're competitive

Erin Lydon:

with them or not at the table, you want everyone to have

Erin Lydon:

that winning opportunity, and once you have

Erin Lydon:

it, it's Pavlovian. You just want to hit

Erin Lydon:

again and again and again so you can re

Erin Lydon:

experience that pulling of the chips back.

Erin Lydon:

all of that leads to women starting to build

Erin Lydon:

the confidence at the poker table, where just 15

Erin Lydon:

minutes ago, they had never played and they really couldn't

Erin Lydon:

imagine themselves negotiating and being successful

Erin Lydon:

at this game. That is such

Erin Lydon:

a critical experience for us

Erin Lydon:

all to have, whether it's winning for something

Erin Lydon:

tangible or truly just for bragging rights, which is what we do at

Erin Lydon:

poker power, it's very validating

Erin Lydon:

to be able to learn something new, apply it, and then

Erin Lydon:

be successful at it. And so that starts the

Erin Lydon:

confidence. What we see women do from there is

Erin Lydon:

we have a total of twelve lessons, so you can spend quite a bit of time with us.

Erin Lydon:

But at some point in those lessons, they're going to say, you

Erin Lydon:

know what? I can take and translate these skills

Erin Lydon:

from the poker table to my real life. And so,

Erin Lydon:

for example, we have a woman in our community,

Erin Lydon:

who was going through a divorce. And

Erin Lydon:

I love when we have workplace successes and we have lots of those

Erin Lydon:

testimonials on our website, but this one is not because it was personal to

Erin Lydon:

her. And she decided to come to the poker power

Erin Lydon:

lessons during the divorce process and it was getting rather

Erin Lydon:

contentious. And she credits poker power

Erin Lydon:

with helping her negotiate differently and

Erin Lydon:

better. And she never told her ex that she was learning how

Erin Lydon:

to play poker, because she really did want to have that upper

Erin Lydon:

hand. One of the skills that I think

Erin Lydon:

directly translates from that is the power of

Erin Lydon:

the pause. And what I mean by the power of

Erin Lydon:

the pause is the ability to take in

Erin Lydon:

information and not immediately react.

Erin Lydon:

And again, when you are negotiating, that is such

Erin Lydon:

a critical skill to just be able to

Erin Lydon:

pause, which in poker is called check. You literally just tap on the table

Erin Lydon:

and you're checking your action and you're not playing any more

Erin Lydon:

chips at that moment. taking that breather, being

Erin Lydon:

able to really analyze everything that is being put in front

Erin Lydon:

of you and then making a sound decision with all the facts

Erin Lydon:

that you have.

Tiffany Grant:

I love that. And that's something that I stress to

Tiffany Grant:

my audience about financial purchases and

Tiffany Grant:

things. just taking that breather. If you're

Tiffany Grant:

a spender, you know, you're a spender and

Tiffany Grant:

you shop a lot on Amazon, leave something in the cart

Tiffany Grant:

for a day and see if you come

Tiffany Grant:

back to it or if it just goes into

Tiffany Grant:

the abyss of violator stuff or

Tiffany Grant:

what have you. But just taking that time to

Tiffany Grant:

pause. And I love that you all teach that

Tiffany Grant:

with the poker as well, because it is a great

Tiffany Grant:

skill to have, that instant

Tiffany Grant:

gratification can get us in a lot of trouble

Tiffany Grant:

financially.

Erin Lydon:

You are absolutely right about that. And I think,

Erin Lydon:

our third lesson is discipline. And discipline

Erin Lydon:

in a poker game is so applicable to real life.

Erin Lydon:

But when we're teaching discipline. It's all

Erin Lydon:

around folding the cards you shouldn't have in play.

Erin Lydon:

And what you find, particularly with beginners in poker,

Erin Lydon:

is once they understand the jargon and the rules, they're very

Erin Lydon:

excited to play. They just want to keep the action going and

Erin Lydon:

have some chips in that pot. we teach our

Erin Lydon:

community that you're going to fold about

Erin Lydon:

80% of the time, which sounds

Erin Lydon:

extraordinarily high. We always poll our community,

Erin Lydon:

and they'll say, oh, 40% of the time, you fold. Oh, 50% of

Erin Lydon:

the time, you fold. when you look at professional players,

Erin Lydon:

on average, they're actually folding about 80% of their

Erin Lydon:

hands. And the reason for that is there are

Erin Lydon:

very opportunistic and strategic moments in

Erin Lydon:

a game where you should be putting chips in, you should

Erin Lydon:

be betting, and when you do that, you should do it in a very

Erin Lydon:

aggressive way. So, in our games, we're teaching you three

Erin Lydon:

times the big blind, which just means you are putting a great big

Erin Lydon:

stack of chips into play. That feels

Erin Lydon:

uncomfortable, but it's the right decision, and

Erin Lydon:

you get the validation of making the right decision by winning the

Erin Lydon:

pot.

Tiffany Grant:

I love that. And also, how I can see this

Tiffany Grant:

translating as well is my background is in

Tiffany Grant:

HR, and I saw

Tiffany Grant:

a lot of people, men and women,

Tiffany Grant:

honestly, not ask for more. they

Tiffany Grant:

just sat at work, and they were just waiting for their manager to

Tiffany Grant:

tap them on the shoulder and say they deserve a raise that day,

Tiffany Grant:

which I've never seen happen, by the way. and

Tiffany Grant:

so I love that

Tiffany Grant:

this gives the confidence, the

Tiffany Grant:

negotiation, the discipline. All of

Tiffany Grant:

these different things can translate into the

Tiffany Grant:

workplace and making sure that you're getting what you're

Tiffany Grant:

worth. And so I love that.

Tiffany Grant:

I'm like, I want to go play poker tomorrow.

Erin Lydon:

We would love to teach you or bring you back to the game, you know, how

Erin Lydon:

to play, but we would love to take your game to the next level, for

Erin Lydon:

sure.

Tiffany Grant:

So, with that being said, if somebody's listening and

Tiffany Grant:

they're like, okay, Erin, I hear you. Poker is

Tiffany Grant:

amazing. I want to learn how to play. How

Tiffany Grant:

can they learn these skills? How can they learn

Tiffany Grant:

how to play poker? And then also all this goodness

Tiffany Grant:

that you gave us today on the show.

Erin Lydon:

Yes. So there are a couple of ways to get involved. we

Erin Lydon:

offer monthly community classes, so

Erin Lydon:

the next round will start in January, and it's 1

Erin Lydon:

hour a week, and it's over Zoom, and it's very

Erin Lydon:

accessible to sign up on our website. It is affordable, which

Erin Lydon:

is very intentional, as we do not want there to be financial barriers

Erin Lydon:

to women getting comfortable with this game. You

Erin Lydon:

also can install the poker power play

Erin Lydon:

app that you can also access by getting to our website, which

Erin Lydon:

is pokerpower.com. And what's great about our

Erin Lydon:

app is you can actually, go through some self learning

Erin Lydon:

modules on your own time, and you can learn the

Erin Lydon:

jargon, learn the basic rules, take some quizzes with each of

Erin Lydon:

those 14 modules to test your knowledge. And

Erin Lydon:

then your next step is you play in the app against the

Erin Lydon:

bots. And that's actually the most popular part

Erin Lydon:

of our app, and that's where most of the women go first, is they

Erin Lydon:

want to just practice this game, make mistakes

Erin Lydon:

with no one watching them. They don't want any feedback yet. They

Erin Lydon:

just want to practice and practice. And then the last thing you'll

Erin Lydon:

get to do, if you're in class with us, virtually, you'll be playing on

Erin Lydon:

the app in a live class. Or you can also join our

Erin Lydon:

community games, which, again, there's no money transacting. And those are

Erin Lydon:

offered three times a day.

Tiffany Grant:

Ah, awesome. That is phenomenal. I love that you

Tiffany Grant:

have so many touch points and so many ways

Tiffany Grant:

that people can get involved and have that support and

Tiffany Grant:

practice. I'm a firm believer in practice

Tiffany Grant:

makes perfect, and we can do anything we

Tiffany Grant:

put our mind to. So thank you for sharing that.

Tiffany Grant:

So I'll make sure that I have all of those links in

Tiffany Grant:

the show notes for you all. And is there any way that they can

Tiffany Grant:

follow you on social?

Erin Lydon:

Yes, they should definitely follow me on all the social channels.

Erin Lydon:

if you type in Aaron Leiden. Actually, if you type the word Aaron

Erin Lydon:

poker and you google that, you will find me. but I'd love for them to

Erin Lydon:

reach out on LinkedIn. Feel free to dm me.

Tiffany Grant:

Perfect. Well, thank you so much, and I enjoyed this

Tiffany Grant:

conversation. Like I said, I want to play maybe later

Tiffany Grant:

today, just for fun. just with some

Tiffany Grant:

of this information that I learned from you. So thank you so much,

Tiffany Grant:

Erin, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

Erin Lydon:

You as well. Thank you.

Tiffany Grant:

Bye.

Tiffany Grant:

Intro/Outro: Thank you for listening, joining, and being a part of the Money

Tiffany Grant:

Talk with TIFF podcast this week. You can check Tiff

Tiffany Grant:

out every Thursday for a new Money Talk podcast.

Tiffany Grant:

But if you just can't wait until next week, you can listen

Tiffany Grant:

to previous podcast

Tiffany Grant:

episodes@moneytalkwitht.com

Tiffany Grant:

or follow Tiff on all social media

Tiffany Grant:

platforms at moneytalkwitht. Until

Tiffany Grant:

next time, spend wise by spending less

Tiffany Grant:

than you make a word to the money wise is

Tiffany Grant:

always sufficient.